pet3rpan: Three-step big DAO to Rome

Abstract: Thousand Faces DAO is sometimes like a factory, sometimes like a kitchen, and the people working in DAO are like workers like chefs and playing games, each performing their duties but having the same DNA. Eventually it will become a dinosaur. It doesn’t matter if you don’t understand it. In the latest interview, pet3rpan, a great god in the DAO field, explored the ideas and concepts of DAO development through personal experience.


The eleventh episode of Mint’s second season ushered in Pet3rpan, a DAO and NFT thought leader, who was widely known for his work in the early blockchain investment company 1KX. He is also the community organizer and summoner of MetaCartel, a decentralized organization, and the founder and master of MetaCartel Ventures, a decentralized autonomous organization.

In this episode, we will talk about:

1KX’s investment philosophy;

The understanding of leaders in DAOs;

How to stop or eliminate bad actors;

Strategies for developing decentralized communities;

Views on JPEG Summer;

NFT investment strategy;

What will eat Web3?

there are more.

pet3rpan: Three-step big DAO to Rome

Please briefly introduce yourself. Who are you and what did you do before joining the cryptocurrency field?

Yes, I am currently working in 1KX investment. We invested in Decentralized Finance (DeFi), NFTs, and social tokens. As you know, the key innovation of cryptocurrency is that you can extract logic from technology and then assign these ownership rights. Moreover, we started investing in almost every field very early, so it is not like a normal Defi fund. We are not NFT funds either. We believe that our core competitiveness is everywhere. For example, dominate the seed round and A round of financing. In the past few years, I have worked at DAO. The most notable work is to create Moloch DAO and help cultivate the DAO ecosystem. DAO was born from this. Creating a venture capital DAO or Metacartel Venture was the first DAO to invest in Ethereum, and it really raised the question of how people should invest together. In the cryptocurrency world, before a designer does product design and UX design, user research is like talking to users. Yes, I think this is what I have been doing.

Do you remember the first cryptocurrency you bought?

Yes, it seems to be ETH in 2012/2013 or something else? Technically, I have come across the first encryption currency probably in 2012 or 2013, I was almost every day Bitcoin collect bitcoin faucet. It’s like I have a separate wallet with about $70 bitcoins in it. But at that time it was probably a few cents, I was just for fun.

Where does your addiction to DAO come from? Have you ever had an unpleasant work experience in the company, then you will think, go to him, we must make a change. Where does this excitement for decentralized organizations come from?

Yes, to be honest, I don’t really like or even care about DAO, until I wanted to join Moloch DAO but was rejected. At that time, everyone actually didn’t know, for example, what was the first real DAO of Ethereum. Like those DAOs created in 2016 and 2015, they may have been hacked, and then no longer exist. But Moloch DAO is a real DAO. It was born at the beginning of 2019 and created many DAO activities. I also tried to join it. It was established like an elite entertainment department with many Ethereum insiders. I think wealthy Ethereum insiders are so popular. I simply wanted to join this experiment, but I didn’t think too much until I was banned from joining in the end.

Do you know why they didn’t let you join?

Because I am poor and no one knows who I am. So basically there is a lot of embarrassment, you know. It’s ironic, but I mean, it’s also very interesting. For example, as you know, many participants come from Ethereum predators (a large number of holders), because 100 ETH holders actually only had 20,000 yuan at the time. But compared with other people who are almost bankrupt, this is still quite a lot of money. I don’t remember well, I might have 20-30 Ether, and then I thought, I’m going to put one-third of my Ether savings into this random DAO just for learning, not worth it ? No one knew who I was, Ken just had too little money, so they rejected me. It’s like the charity organization DAO, you know. Amin later chatted with me, for example, why don’t you create your own Moloch DAO? I think that would be funny. Then, an adventure began.

What is the current state of the DAO you built? Where is it now? How many members are there? What are you generally doing? Tell me about it.

Okay, we created a Metacartel DAO, the first branch of Moloch, which will be released in mid-to-early 2019. After creating the first one, we practiced funding and experimentation on the DAO, and we also had some service-providing server expansion DAO, just like Devshop and design work. We created the first investment DAO in Ethereum, a decentralized autonomous organization (Metacartel ventures). We created the first experiment on the decentralized brand economic model, just like the decentralized brand DAO with Meta Factory. It was originally called SWAG DAO. We try to work on a decentralized reputation system. The purpose of the DAO we work should be able to coordinate all parties in real life. It was originally used to initiate sponsorship events, but it quickly evolved into a whiskey party. You know, the one called Orochi DAO was created by programmers with rebates. A Metacartel DAO can easily have more than one hundred people. Then you are part of this ecosystem. There are about 200-300 people in the entire decentralized ecosystem. So this is probably like a group of people who want to try DAO, like the Internet at the beginning, this is just a community where we hang out. In hindsight, it was a very good time, nothing is worth it. You know, no one is making money. And it is like a pure experiment. I think we have become closer as a community.

When you started your DAO, how did you control leadership? Did you encounter any problems in the beginning? Tell me about it.

Yes, the most important thing in the whole model is to create as many leaders as possible. I think my mentality model is to let more people start their careers, support them, and give them as much responsibility as possible, do you know? Give people a sense of responsibility that they would not normally be given. This is why it should be part of the value of centralization. One of them is to bet on each other better than others in the community. I think this is a kind of heuristic that really leads, at least a kind of value, that can really guide the development and diffusion of these DAOs. Because it’s like when someone thinks “Hey, should I create a DAO to create a decentralized brand? Or create a DAO that I don’t know how to serve.” We basically have the same idea: Come on , We will do this now. We want to be the people behind to push them to experiment. I think this is the most important thing. At this stage, we are supporting each other. We really promote this culture of experimentation and practice. I think a lot of people are just talking about it, and what we really want is to move things forward and run.

When you think about the organizational structure, what kind of big hat do you need to put on DAO when you first start it?

Yes, you need leadership. I think you need a role similar to that of a chef in the kitchen, where everyone has their own duties, right? Just like in a kitchen, you have people like the chef who manage the dishes on the menu and control the preparation of the dishes; but there are also people like the assistant chef who are responsible for several dishes or key areas on the menu. .

So, different people may have different responsibilities, but you always need a central coordinator. Usually how these things expand, like you know my experience. I wrote a lot of code until a group of likes took over and they were called “Paladins”. Right, we set up different roles in DAO. Then Paladins became responsible for operations, and the group took over. Then, you know, for every independent DAO, someone is pushed to the role of coordinator.

They usually set what is the tone of the DAO, and then collect resources, set goals and tasks. Once they set up a concerted initial operation team, they will think of setting up basic processes and systems to decentralize the power of that central coordination point. But to start any kind of DAO community, I think you need to know the focal point of the organization, the effective scope, or the seminars that can be carried out to move things forward. I mean, it is as effective and efficient as centralized coordination. And I think you can definitely rely on it, because when your organization becomes large enough, it really can no longer run and operate in the same way, so I think you have to make the most of those early days.

Because in the early days, you have such autonomy to create and design. As I can see, in the early stages of Meta Cartel, whoever is involved, I want to bring in. Whoever we want to bring in can come in. This is very important. And we can, as a group, need to do this very finely, rather than being able to use people at will. Today, I met many people who belong to the Meta Cartel ecosystem. Although I have never seen them before, they are also part of the entire network. And the reason it can go to this day is because every group that has been stripped out has maintained the cultural spirit of Meta Cartel as a whole, even though the DAO they are in is completely different. Moreover, it has certainly not been designed and planned so much, but this is why I think DAO will become a real organization in the future. DAO actually just needs good coordination, which is like having the ability to differentiate. And the other person, as a coordinator at the beginning, set the main tone, just like creating DNA, this magical double helix gave birth to everything else in life.

Based on all your experience in managing and launching the DAO, how do you consider the reputation of contributors?

Reputation, I think it’s like something that allows you to trust others more easily and more, right. It’s basically like, I think the tape used to coordinate between people in society, right? All of it actually exists, but it is not really formalized. In the early days of many DAOs, I think whoever is coordinating is just a central ledger that records the reputation of each contributing member. And over time, I definitely think it makes sense to build some kind of reputation system to show who did what, because as you grow as a group, you can’t be true, I think it’s like Dunbar’s numbers ( Note that the “Dunbar Number” is also called the “Law of 150”, which means that the cognitive ability provided by the human brain can only enable a person to maintain a stable interpersonal relationship with about 150 people ), right? Just like you don’t know who is who, or you have forgotten, it’s harder to keep track, at least on a spiritual level. I think for Meta Cartel, we have not really passed this stage yet, and we still rely heavily on individual key community members to supervise everyone. I think this is a guarantee for new members and new projects. We will definitely see that many other communities need a more formal reputation system, but for us, we are only growing very slowly. Yes, like you would ask what is Meta Cartel today? It’s more like a group of DAOs focused on their respective goals, and the individuals inside are a selection list of your trust in Meta Cartel, right?

Yes, it makes sense. You have met all these people you trust, or they are just all the network characters recommended by other people you trust.

Yes, in the past three or four years, I have basically known all of them. At first, it seemed that it was just a large group of people gathered on the Internet. First, I met online, and then offline. It seemed that they all experienced such a pattern from unfamiliar to familiar.

When you started these DAOs, how did you think about community building? I asked this question because I published a great article in June entitled “How to develop a decentralized community”.

There is no secret to the DAO community building process. It all depends on what the DAO is for, that is, what the goal of the DAO is. So you can start with DeFi. For example, DAO has a DeFi protocol. You know that DAO can basically manage treasury and funds, right? Or a specific DAO, you know that it is purposefully concentrated in the areas of service and privacy, focusing on the social management of social clubs. Therefore, when someone you admire creates a DAO and recommends it to you, whether to participate depends on what the DAO is doing and how it develops. Does DAO start from scratch? Do you start based on existing products or do you already have some assets? It really depends on where your heart is. For all other types of DAO, how will you guide these various patterns that appear? How do you start these specific networks around them? It all depends on the goal and type of each DAO.

Take me to understand these three levels and share your insights on the meaning of each part.

I think this will be a very abstract thing, like a mental model. What I want to share is to really create a community of stakeholders who really care about this project, participate in management and participate in the network in various ways. It needs to be effectively cultivated, just like creating a great community, it must cultivate a sense of ownership. Therefore, ownership is the driving force to promote participation in governance beyond monetary incentives. It drives community development, just like product feedback iteration. It promotes recruitment and also promotes the participation and contribution of working groups.

You know that driving all these areas of the DAO is a decentralized organization, and you need to fill in certain gaps, don’t you? And, unless you can guide this kind of ownership, it’s difficult to find community members manually, right? And how do you obtain your ownership? You must establish an effective relationship. Before you can build a relationship, you must attract and develop effective communication. You know that finding potential community members and making them empathize or match up is very important in itself. Therefore, this is really a step backwards, such as how do we cultivate ownership? How can we reach the position of fostering ownership? Then, how do we attract the right people? I think that roughly when we are thinking about the entire process of building a community, we must consider the state that we will eventually reach. My definition of a community is actually a group of people who work together on a set of common goals and One-to-one cooperation based on values. You know, to reach that end, this is the general process you have to go through, no matter what you are building effectively. And this is a bit abstract, just like what we call ownership, but it is basically applicable to every network, and I will even make some fine-tuning of this recently. Some of the latest realizations are that some communities may actually want to maximize community participation. Some communities may actually want to benefit from community participation in the token network itself, right? To some extent, just like minimizing governance, different communities can use the network to participate in different ways. For some people, this is the use of a de-risking platform. For others, it is used for crowdfunding, right? Because it means the Internet, it means the crowdfunding of ideas or projects, such as the development of index products. In projects such as the development of index products, they may want to maximize the level of crowdfunding. Therefore, when we can better understand different types of token networks, problems with these topics will arise. Therefore, it is not always black and white. For example, we want to build the largest community possible. I think the key is to determine who the stakeholders are, which is very important for the ultimate success of the network. Or when a certain project is carried out, it is also from the stakeholders, and then these funnel structures are effectively established to attract people to become members of the community.

How to build in public without revealing too much stuff prematurely? So let’s take an example. For example, you are building a consumer application or web application, and you want to consider the components of the DAO in terms of how the community participates in its ownership, but you don’t want to give up too much of the governance rights of these individuals. You want to maintain the concentration of the core product and its team, but still need to establish DAO governance in production. Is there any way to mix the two? How will this work? For example, how do you form a DAO without giving up all governance rights and completely exposing yourself. How do you maintain its focus and focus, and then gradually expand the scope? What needs to be done?

What is the ultimate goal of DAO? All your decisions revolve around compromise, and I won’t even start with this issue. Yes, when you want a decentralized product, in the early days, you will want to have partial control over it, especially when you need to create community participation, establish community participation, rapid decision-making, and rapid action. Different projects have different degrees of centralization, and they grant different degrees of ownership to the community, depending on what your ultimate goal is. If you want to build a primitive financial system worth hundreds of billions of dollars, then you want the nation and the country to trust you. You may want a fairly decentralized network, but if you really build an application, if you really want to build an application, then to some extent, you want to participate, you want to find room for improvement, you want Decide on network ownership to help you reach the final state you want to achieve. For some projects, they may give 30% of the tokens to the community, and some projects may give up 50%. The wonderful thing is that the project will compete for the same users through its own network, and when you choose a product with fewer tokens, you will have more ownership. It depends on which product is better? Which product or community do you most resonate with? Maybe everything is the same, you just want someone who really cares about the user or yourself the most, it really depends on the different situations you are facing. They want to find some kind of fluctuating parameter to describe it, and you know, there is no correct answer.

How do you instill a sense of ownership that goes beyond the purpose of tokens in a community? It also means how to encourage people not only to speculate, but to contribute?

Most projects have incentives when launching tokens, trying to use incentives to attract participation. In fact, you should find contributors or community members, and then find an intermediate point between the internal and external participation. So you have to start with participation, and then design how to reward. And in most projects now, you just get tokens that can be sold, just like liquid mining and smashing, it forms a fairly transactional environment. So, yes, when we run a project, a key aspect is also the real approach. At least the approach we take is that you want to build a community quickly, right? Find community participation or network participation. Then once you understand what the network looks like, how you will design it, who are the most important stakeholders, and then really design the distribution system or token distribution plan to truly reward their most valuable network participants. Rather than starting backwards from incentive design, at least from our point of view, this is not really effective.

Another question I have for you is that as DAO approaches more mainstream worlds, you see more of those, creators, Internet kols, Instagram kols, all kinds of big Vs, building these so-called modern Of decentralized fan clubs. Does this make you excited or worried? Because it brings more speculators and communities, do you think this is a good thing or a bad thing for the industry? How do you feel about it?

Yes, no matter what situation we may encounter, we will solve it anyway. I believe that web 3.0 is a democratizing force that empowers communities. Participants will also become victims of scams. You know, other people use people. This is a whole new paradigm. So I think it is inevitable. I don’t think there is a reasonable way to approach something so powerful, so be careful. When the Internet hit society, there was a very naive idea: hackers searched for broilers on the Internet and hacked into insecure systems. People suffer greatly. At the same time, you know, the emergence of all these Internet industries, all these people, now we have online shopping, we have all these other services now. As I like to say, I am definitely excited about the emergence of actual adoption and actual use cases. But I think it’s good and bad, I think. Yes, that’s what I think.

You 1kx is one of the earliest NFT investors. How do you understand what happened in JPEG summer ? How do you sort out the clues?

Yes, this is a good question. I think, I mean, of course there are a lot of chair grabs (receiving games). But what I think is happening is that at least one case or the argument surrounding NFT is that we think art and collectibles are a great beachhead, like, you know what it might be. They are obvious use cases for NFTs. But we are more interested in the financialization of NFTs themselves. Basically everything on the Internet is an NFT. However, it has not been introduced or cast into the we b 3.0 economy. When they need to do this, they can unlock the financial value of assets, such as the property rights of NFTs, through contracts. We are very excited about things like NiftyFi, using it you can basically use your NFT as collateral and get a loan from there. If you are an Instagram influencer, you can’t actually go to the bank to get a loan for your Instagram posts. Because this is not a real job, no one cares about it. But your EtherRocks, whatever you want, your Pudgy Penguins, you can go there and use it to get a loan. You may obtain loans for your videos, which may generate income, and even your tokens may obtain the right to income from videos and articles. Therefore, we think this is really the future, and we actually ignore a lot of photo-like NFTs. Initially, we would say what happened? We don’t really understand. But then we realized that we missed the chair grab game and hot potato game in our industry. In the NFT economy, there is a part, especially the NFT around profile photos of personal avatars, like these photos or avatars actually represent ownership. It’s like it represents the ownership of certain communities. So I think cryptopunk is definitely one. Bored Ape and other projects, maybe they may eventually become a game like grabbing a chair and become a hot potato, but we hold a little bit, and then have some very interesting epiphanies, “Hey, this is actually about the ownership of the Internet” . So I think this is our interpretation of this. In fact, we are quite excited about this revelation. It’s like, it’s actually a different view of identity, which is completely different. I think a lot of people have dealt with and tried to solve it, understanding what identity is from a very purely technical point of view, such as from a standard point of view. But you can think of this as understanding identity from a social perspective, which makes more sense.

What are you paying attention to at 1KX? Are you investing in avatar images (NFT)? Are you more inclined to equity investment? What is your investment strategy?

Yes, as a fund, we generally do not purchase NFTs alone. We are trying to find a general strategy. We look for investments that can build risks in a wide range of areas. So we look for opportunities on the index. We haven’t really found it yet, at least in the field of avatar NFT, but I absolutely agree with your argument, such as at least in the early days of MetaCartel, when we created MetaFactory. There is a lot of discussion about user experience as an obstacle to mass adoption, just like abstract cryptocurrency technology. We think this is part of the puzzle, but our theory about mass adoption is that it will actually happen in cryptocurrency. It’s kind of like hip-hop, right? Hip-hop is very niche, created by a real black community, for example, New York, right? In fact, it really came from a place, so niche, so unique, with such a unique identity, and becoming very cool. And others want to be part of it. Hip-hop did not try to attract other things, it was itself, it said, fuck everything else. I think, just like our MetaFactory theory, we want to show the coolest parts of web3.0, such as digital ownership, DAO collection of NFTs, digital property rights, royalties, etc., to other people in the world. We start with digital and physical clothing, just like we have branded clothing, but they themselves are attached with rare, collectible NFT and RFID chip clothing. This argument is definitely being played out. Well, mass adoption is actually happening on the native side of cryptocurrencies. And many people try to solve this problem, for example, how do you do the same thing with Web 2.0 in the Web 3.0 era.

Adam: What a good analogy. Comparison between the rise of hip-hop and the rise of cryptocurrencies. I would even say that cryptocurrency will be bigger than hip-hop music, it has its own dignity and way of development. Obviously, they are two different components, but this is a good analogy. Seeing the rise of something is like fuck you mentality, this is our culture. This is how we feel. This is how we express ourselves. If you want to be a part of us, join us in our way. Crypto is largely a state of mind, so far you haven’t really seen it in any other field. Therefore, the project you are investing in. I know you mentioned the connection between DeFi and NFTs. Obviously, this is the excitement of many people now. People are talking about this issue all over the cryptocurrency Twitter.

In addition to DeFi, what other use cases in NFT excite you?

I think, so in addition to financialization, like the NFT financialization agreement, I think we kind of regard it as a frit, right? All the creativity generated from digital assets, and how they become valuable, or at least how people extract value from them, I think that cases like this are not too detailed to products and technologies, but facts, such as NFTs, For example, you do not need to be over 18 years old to enter this financial economy without permission. I remember using the Internet when I was 13 years old. I tried to be freelance and do sports design, but I couldn’t do it. I had to ask my parents to sign up for a PayPal. I think the situation of NFTs is like, as a 13-year-old or 12-year-old child, you can create these financial assets. If you want to do this, you can start doing business from the first day. I think that this kind of permissionless economy is actually a key use case that can lead to really cool things. The existence of this economy is a complete platform in itself.

Adam: What I am personally excited about is that all these future consumer applications will be based on the social networking of NFTs or the market of NFTs or just the portfolio management of NFTs. We have not seen yet. Now, if you think about it, the current state of NFTs is that they are largely desktop-driven, right? There is currently no real mobile market that allows people to buy and sell things on the go. This is something you must access through your Metamask wallet. And the user flow is really messy. I know you would say that this is not a user experience proposition, it is more like the original life problem of cryptocurrency, but what I want to say is different. What I want to say is that, in fact, many people need to understand what a simplified version of this thing looks like. People still feel overwhelmed by Metamask. People are still overwhelmed by opensea and all the data and searches, and basically only the first things found. Know what JPEG should I buy? How can I buy it, etc. Therefore, this is something I am personally excited about.

What is your opinion on the development of native consumer apps for cryptocurrency? Are there any new discoveries in this regard?

Yes, I have absolutely no objection. My point is that we really need to solve exciting use cases first. Once you solve this problem, the next limiting factor is user experience. I think it must be at this stage now, and I think the future of society will be like a group of people collecting NFTs together. It is a group of people buying and trading NFTs with each other. Create NFTs together as a group and meet each other in these DAOs. I think that, slowly, maybe we will not call this kind of activity DAO or NFT collection, who knows how to describe it, and how we will refine its meaning. But I do think it will be somewhat similar to this. And this is how people meet and connect with each other now, right. At least in the future. And I think that with regard to user experience, I think it’s a bit like the situation where people are initially exploring how the original value of cryptocurrency will be brought to the public.

Maybe it happened from a top-down perspective, such as a Steve Jobs who likes the product so much, or maybe it is a more decentralized approach, you just have different ecology emerge, and slowly solve the bigger problem. Adoption issues. Because it’s not like, the explosion, you know, is a better interface was invented overnight, and the number of users went from zero to one million. Is it what you are doing? We are growing, and our usual Web 3.0 user base and the NFT economy itself are developing quite fast. Therefore, I think it’s like this expanding bubble, no pun intended, just that it’s growing.

Adam: In my opinion, we see the rise of all different innovation agreements, whether it is curatorial management agreements, attendance certification agreements, or NFT market agreements. I think it would be cool to see all the different jigsaw pieces put together in a beautiful, more mainstream way. Because users need to plan. Users need to create a diary to record the places they have been and what they have participated in, right? Users need a market. I think there is a beauty in working in a decentralized way, to make all these different jigsaw pieces into a beautiful picture.

Just want to add the metaphor of this puzzle. My favorite analogy is web3.0, cryptocurrency, DeFi, web3.0 is a huge Sudoku puzzle in general. You may fill in squares blindly, and it may not make much sense until you, for example, may you fill in the correct squares, and suddenly you unlock all the other squares. Sudoku puzzles suddenly become super, super obvious. I think we are in the deserted and bear market of DeFi. I think that in 2019/2018, it is the two squares that we filled and really unlocked everything, such as the loan market and AMM, such as Compound and Uniswap . And these two financial primitives are unlocked, just like other parts of DeFi. For NFTs, perhaps with the introduction of NFTs into the mass market, just like NBA TopShot proves that people understand collectibles. This answers these big questions. For example, do people really understand this? I don’t know what you call these hardcore people.

Adam: They are the most active fans. You know, there are people who watch on TV, and then people who go to the game, buy jerseys, buy cards, buy brand cups, and smear some nonsense things on their faces. These are the most active fans. You give those more active fans a sense of community, a sense of ownership, and what they like and support. I want to go to the last question.

At least in the second season, I started asking everyone this question.

I am a big fan of the development of the Internet, especially how to transition from web1 of the Internet to web2 of the Internet, and how web2.0 eats web1.0. Let us paint this picture. Web 1.0 is very static, right? It is largely read-only. You really can’t do much other than browsing information disorderly. After the advent of Web 2.0, you have more advanced products, such as Google, Facebook, Instagram, creating more user experience UI layers in this dispersed virtual world. You have companies like Uber, many mainstream centralized companies, and the rise of this entire data control and data aggregation. And what it means. Now we see the development of what we like to say about web3.0, which is a decentralized version of social network, decentralized ownership and web2.0 eat up web1.0. The bet is that web3.0 will eat web2.0.

What will eat up web3.0?

I don’t know, I thought about this problem before. We might be like, you know, people who are considered to be the next boom period. When that really happens, we might turn a blind eye to what happens in the next wave, right? I have no idea. This is a very good question. You know, everyone will eventually become a dinosaur. This is a cycle.

I think this is a good ending. Everyone will become a dinosaur and shout to my dinosaurs. Peter , before I let you go, please quickly plug in yourself, where can we find your 1kx and everything you are building?


Posted by:CoinYuppie,Reprinted with attribution to:
Coinyuppie is an open information publishing platform, all information provided is not related to the views and positions of coinyuppie, and does not constitute any investment and financial advice. Users are expected to carefully screen and prevent risks.

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